[4e] Gully Dwarves

[Dragonhelm]

Okay, so one of the "bugs" in 4e is that ability scores only get bonuses (not negatives), yet gully dwarves are stupid. They've traditionally had some sort of penalty to Int.

I'd like to hear a bit about how one could tackle gully dwarves as a race in 4e and maintain the flavor. Is it just that the player has to consciously decide to make a low Int, or is there another way?

[talinthas]

gully dwarves should not (and really should never have been) be player characters. They're bad for a vast array of reasons, not the least of which is the reprehensible attitude of a race that exists solely to be stupid dirt eaters that are picked on.

if you have to have em, make em monsters. i dont know what the hell the original team was thinking, having such a seriously flawed stereotype in the game.

[Lord_of_Sorrow]

i dont know what the hell the original team was thinking, having such a seriously flawed stereotype in the game.

Courage and strength in the face of adversity. When the whole world is stacked against you, it often puts a finer point on someone's heroism. Or so I'd like to think.

I think that I'd probably let a player roleplay just how "stupid" his own character is. I had a player who decided that his character with an Intelligence of 11, still acted like a typical gully dwarf. Although he was brighter than most with mazes, and puzzles - he still couldn't count higher than two (despite the fact that his name was Three - the story behind that was that a Wizard of High Sorcery had tried to teach him to count "properly" and Three just didn't understand from a cultural standpoint).

I'd give the gully dwarves the following ability score bonuses (if I'm understanding 4E correctly that the non-human races get two +2 bonuses?):

Dexterity +2, Constitution +2

My reasoning is that gully dwarves are scrappy survivors. They have all the physical edges (except for outstanding strength) to survive in a world hostile to them. Heroic gully dwarves are generally more intelligent than other gully dwarves (and are excellent trackers, explorers, and sometimes even mystics or sorcerers), but lack the polished education of the more "civilized" races.

This leads many to misinterpret them as being stupid - which is not the case. They use this stigmatic stereotype to great effect, allowing them to be very deceptive and misleading (which could correlate as a bonus to Persuade or something of that ilk). And then, there's the fact that when cornered like a rat, they fight as fiercely as any ogre (which could be something akin to the rage power of the Barbarian in 3E, as a racial power. If it sounds dumb, suggest something better - I dont' own the 4E books yet).

Any skill bonuses should probably involve Survival, Perception, and Stealth. I mean, they are gully dwarves. They know how to live in places no one else would, they are generally very aware of what's going on around them (the Hughbulp in Chronicles didn't seem imperceptive), and when they'd rather not fight (which is usually) they tend to get away with being unobserved. Some people even take pains to ignore them.

Still, it could be as Tal says. If creating a stronger, smarter, less inept gully dwarf just isn't going to work, leave them as a monster...

Your turn.

[Turambar]

Two solutions come to mind:
1) Not suitable as PCs (as I have always done)
2) PCs are exceptional by definition. So, the rare PC gully dwarf can be as viable as any other race. Since the focus of 4e design is about playing the strengths of a race, I can see how gully dwarf would not receive any bonus to Int (go figure!), but surely they are very resilient. I would say +2 Con, +2 Dex.
For skills, +2 Endurance, +2 Stealth
Or +2 Endurance, +2 Nature
Or something like that

just my 2 cps

[Weldon Chen]

gully dwarves should not (and really should never have been) be player characters.

Well I disagree. Remember the high Bulp can be clever and sneaky if not well-educated. the problem is that you're stereo-typed them to be useless stupid creatures that are useless. But one can stereo-type kender as thieves. Tal, Gully dwarves can be the ultimate striker/controllers. Give them powers related to their dex score. and avoid providing powers that rely on int scores and no bonuses to intelligence. players will min-max their ability score accordingly, so that the creatures will be low intelligence.

Imagine the gully dwarf, one of the damnest creatures to hit because they run so fast. One bite and you'll be infected with some nasty teeth wounds. I'd give them a basic racial skill that delivers poisons via melee attacks. Kododragons have nasty infectious bites, why not aghar.

i'd look at powers that give them more powers available as move actions, and standard actions that can be done as move actions.

because of their living conditions, I'd adapt the stinking cloud but make it Con based rather than int based. and if anyone lights a match, fireball.

I'd probably hand them a power to hide, and hide under cover very well.

I'd probably give them a +2 dex, +2 con. fast and durable.
I'd probably give them bonus endurance and/or aerobatics to escape grips.

And remember, just as kender don't have to be clones of Tas, gully dwarves don't have to be clones of Sestun. Afterall, a gullydwarf adventurer is better than your average gully dwarf.

and just to keep it a bit on the dragonlance side of things, a Paragon feat or epic Destiny would include getting a valuable emerald that drives a group of evil targets around the jewel to fight each other over it. Saving throw ends?

Weldon

[Eben Lakemoore]

As a side note, thats a good idea. Lets do a 4E Kodragon. Maybe Cam will do it when he does his conversions.

[Tinker]

I think that Gully Dwarves make excellent unlikely heroes. Who was it that defeated that interloper Supreme God of Darkness? That white haired pretty boy who has women tripping over themselves to be with him? Nope, it was that little Gully Dwarf.

[Cam Banks]

Here's a preview of my gully dwarf conversion:

Gully Dwarf

RACIAL TRAITS
Gully dwarves have the same racial traits as dwarves from the 4e Player's Handbook, except as follows:

Average Height: 3’6”–4’
Average Weight: 100-140 lb.

Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity
Size: Small
Skill Bonuses: +2 Perception, +2 Stealth
Sticks and Stones: You have a +2 proficiency bonus to attacks with any melee or ranged improvised weapon. This replaces the standard dwarf’s dwarven weapon proficiency.
Stand Your Ground: Gully dwarves do not have this racial ability.
Coward’s Shift: You can use coward’s shift as an at-will power.

Coward’s Shift Gully Dwarf Racial Power
Given the choice to fight or flee, you opt for the safer option.
At Will
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: An enemy takes an action that provokes an opportunity attack from you.
Effect: You shift 1 square away from the enemy instead of making an opportunity attack.

[Turambar]

Here's a preview of my gully dwarf conversion:

Gully Dwarf

RACIAL TRAITS
Gully dwarves have the same racial traits as dwarves from the 4e Player's Handbook, except as follows:

Average Height: 3’6”–4’
Average Weight: 100-140 lb.

Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Dexterity
Size: Small
Skill Bonuses: +2 Perception, +2 Stealth
Sticks and Stones: You have a +2 proficiency bonus to attacks with any melee or ranged improvised weapon. This replaces the standard dwarf’s dwarven weapon proficiency.
Stand Your Ground: Gully dwarves do not have this racial ability.
Coward’s Shift: You can use coward’s shift as an at-will power.

Coward’s Shift Gully Dwarf Racial Power
Given the choice to fight or flee, you opt for the safer option.
At Will
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: An enemy takes an action that provokes an opportunity attack from you.
Effect: You shift 1 square away from the enemy instead of making an opportunity attack.

Very nice!
Quite close to what I had in mind. I had given them the Shifty ability of kobolds.
Great minds etc.

[Lord_of_Sorrow]

Ooooh. I really like Cam.

Very nice. Very nice indeed!

Your turn.